I know, I know. this isn’t the best foot to step off on, but I gotta tell you, it was this issue that made me think,
“I am not digging this SO much that I feel that I need to blog it.”
No worries, my posts won’t always be “gloom and doom”.
Now for the issue at hand.
Recently, in the past few days, a conversation came up in the Rock Band forums that triggered the kind of reaction you would rather not get out of my fianceé. You see, she is a very ‘pro-black’ individual. By that I mean being of African American descent like myself, she has little tolerance for things that are blatantly and/or can be construed as discriminatory toward our race.
That being established, I am sure that if you are a gamer reading this blog, you have at least some knowledge of what Rock Band is. For those of you who may not know, let me clear it up for you.
Some years ago, amidst the barrage of action, racing and RPG/adventure titles flooding the market as so went the gaming status quo every year, Harmonix(HMX), a developer somewhat known for their prowess in making good, if not always popular, music games teamed up with the then online game rental company Red Octane to bring the world Guitar Hero. Guitar Hero was the first home console music simulation game that featured an instrument-shaped controller. This made the experience of playing the music feel about as close to the real thing that you can get with a game controller. After three installments of the title(the original, a direct sequel and a spin-off), Harmonix severed their ties with the Guitar Hero name, selling it outright to their producer at that point, Activision.
This break from their former franchise soon led into the unveiling of Rock Band(RB), a game in the vein of Guitar Hero but with a new twist, the inclusion of vocals and drums into the gameplay alongside the guitar(which doubles as bass). Like its predecessor, the game was a success. with a robust songlist and weekly DLC(downloadable content) available for the game, it has the kind of longevity most games in any genre lack.
Of course, Guitar Hero had only been sold to Activision, not made defunct. So now, Rock Band’s only real competition comes in the form of the franchise that spawned it. The first installment of the series made in the absence of Harmonix, Guitar Hero 3(GH3), is known as either a love it or hate it game. It’s style and difficulty are not for everyone. Earlier this year on the heels of the big commercial success of GH3, Activision announced Guitar Hero World Tour(GHWT). GHWT climbs into the same boat as RB, adding vocals and drums to the formula. Following that announcement, HMX announced that Rock Band 2(RB2) would also be coming this year.
Ok, so that is the history of the games up to this point. Now, as I said, a conversation in the RB forums led to the discussion of possible racial discrimination on the part of Harmonix in regard to their selection in tracks, both on-disc and DLC for their games. The discussion was soon closed by one of the game’s developers(whose name I am intentionally leaving ot for now), who had this to say in what I am posting as part of my fianceé’s quote/response to him on his personal page.
“And I am closing the discussion about race in Rock Band because it is WILDLY speculative and ill informed. Are there African American artists in bands featured in Rock Band? Yes. Will there be more African American artists featured in Rock Band as time goes on? Yes.
When putting out DLC we look for songs that rock. I can definitively say, without a shadow of a doubt, that race, ethnicity, gender, sexual preference, or religion do not factor into our decisions about whether or not we’re going to put a song in Rock Band. We’re not going out of our way to exclude anyone from Rock Band.”
After her quoting of this, she responded with;
“We Don’t Believe You, You Need More People”- Jay-Z Take Over
I’ll believe it when i see it. Until then I continue to play the game that really diversifies their song list and doesn’t offer lame excuses such as the one I quoted from you above. Songs that rock do not include The Jonas Bros or iCarly btw. And you have rap music in the game but continue to exclude black artists and their music.
The other game she is referring to in her post is the aforementioned GHWT. You see, the GH crew has made it a point to include multicultural music and, yes, music by African American/Black artists in each release of their game since HMX’s departure. That is, aside from GH:Aerosmith which does not apply due to the unique nature of the content, and possibly the portable versions of the game which I cannot comment on because I have not played them. The GH games feature music by Lenny Kravitz, Living Colour, Jimi Hendrix and even Michael Jackson.
Selections like these are noticeably absent from not only RB, but any of the games that HMX has developed since the original GH. This raises an eyebrow for not only my fianceé and myself, but many other players as well.
Her response to this dev prompted a response from another user of the forums who had this to say, unedited from its original form;
to comment below
wtf…Their music? There are an equally amount of all races in this generation who rap, and none of what you call “rap” songs in rock band have black rappers(not complain that there are no black artists in rock band). That just struck a note when you associated rap with a race, because I believe music is universal, not subject to black or white.
Now, while my fianceé has a low tolerance for discrimination, I have a lower tolerance for people who not only poorly express themselves in topics of debate, but do so with completely misguided and poorly thought out points.
I decided to post the text below in response to him, also unedited from its original form.
to the comment below
“wtf…. Their music?”
yeah, THEIR music, as in the the music belonging to those artists.
michael jackson-” beat it”
lenny kravitz-” are you gonna go my way”
jimi hendrix- “the wind cries mary”
the above = black artists and their music
your personal ignorance immediately drew the conversation to focus only on rap, because obviously, black people aren’t capable of producing and/or enjoying any other form of music.
if you can’t even comprehend such simple comments then you need not respond, especially with a poorly thought out and ignorant response as the one you posted.
the fact that rap was used as an example in her comment is because in a genre of music both created and dominated outright by african americans(don’t- fool yourself, rap is not equally contributed to by all races, only a grade schooler could even possibly think so), the RB team managed to include only tracks by white artists in their game. the guitar hero group on the other hand
/continued
has managed several tracks by AA artists in their first band game effort. so what is HMX’s excuse for the lack of support in over a year and two iterations of RB?
and no, bands who just happen to include one person of color do not count. killswitch engage for instance has an AA frontman. but if you ask anyone to name an AA rock group, how many will answer “killswitch”? how many will even know their singer is black before you tell them? next to none, certainly.
and don’t give me that “there aren’t enough black rock groups” nonsense. I call bullcrap on that one. there are plenty, they are simply a minority in the genre on the whole. not that it matters anyway, since if HMX is truly looking to include non rock music that fits the band template, like the substantial country offering recently announced, they have no excuse not to reach outside of the genre to grab a few AA artists. nuff said.
The above post of mine I found, the next day, had been deleted by the developer whose comments spurred the conversation above.
So, let me get this straight, he would allow the comment my fianceé made, and its poorly refuted response to remain on his page. But when I interjected with a message that made logical sense of why the situatuion as it is can be perceived as discriminatory, also condemning the poor response of that individual, my post gets deleted?
Needless to say, this does nothing to make our suspicions seem any less relevant, instead bringing more question as to why I was not allowed to speak freely about the situation. Does it ring an air of truth, so it need be quashed before other users could see it and possibly join in the dissent? What is the deal, Harmonix? Why is there no satisfactory action being taken here, and not what looks like hiding of the truth?
I guess we can have our answer in time. I’ll be sure to update the situation here as or if it develops further.
Tell em why you mad son, tell em why you mad. Yes It’s me the aforementioned fiancee. I’m going to inquire about the NAACP getting involved to see if there is some blatant discrimination/racism going on at HMX. I hope they have their quotas up. I’m fed up with Rock Band and their HMX/MTV/EA conglomerate.
So what is the criteria then? Does 50% of the band have to be AA? You dismiss Killswitch Engaged even though it is fronted by an AA. Would Hootie and the blowfish also be disqualified? What about if they have ever played with “white folk”? Lenny Kravitz is half jewish and half black (his own words) . . .so even if he writes and plays every part himself, the band is STILL only 50% AA, not to mention the band that he used to play that song was ALL WHITE!!!! Well crap, time to dismiss Lenny kravitz. Jimmy Hendrix was black but played with ALL WHITE GUYS AGAIN!!!! well at least they had afros, so we won’t dismiss Jimmy altogether.
This sounds rediculous and absurd doesn’t it? So does your argument. If you kept up with the new AT ALL, you would know that HMX has been in works with JImmy hendrix’s estate for quite some time trying to work out a deal for Rock Band. There is speculation of a timed exclusivity with ACT before rock band could get him.
Many of the AA bands and artists i would love to see in the game have issues. Whether it be lack of masters (Living Colour had to re-record Cult for GH3), or licensing issues. And since you dismiss bands that have AA members, but not the entire band, well then we are getting more and more limited in choices. Also should we differentiate ALL songs that have anyone of a different race? Just to make sure we’re not slighting anyone? Quite a few Jewish people in Rock band, not to mention hispanics and even a couple Asians. . . When you look at the setlists do you see only “White guy” bands. I’d say YOU are being bigoted then. THey have said it before, and I believe them when they say that they include music that ROCKS, regardless of ethnicity.
to quote from the Rock Band Forums:
“The lack of African American artist might be more attributable to HMX continued bad taste and love for obscure bands than of it racism.” –
http://www.rockband.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44125&highlight=African+American&page=5
Again, the problem here is that those of us who share this concern see a lack in the inclusion of AA bands and ARTISTS. And that means talented and/or recognized AA musicians as the main event, not just some guy that could be easily overlooked such as is the case with many groups that feature a single AA member such as killswitch. People in general recognize Jimi Hendrix aside from the fact that he played with others who were not black. Most people on the other hand, as I have already said, do not recognize “that single black guy in that group”. Many of them have no idea that this frontman is black, or that drummer is black, etc.
And no matter who has been in talks with whom, and so on, the big deal is that it hasn’t yet happened. There are no results, and there are certainly other choices out there other than Jimi, a long dead artist whose estate is controlled by his remaining family. since when did “We tried to get this one guy, but it didn’t work out” mean that they made a real effort? It’s like when kids are taught black history in school, all they know when they are done is Martin Luther King. What about other bands, other artists, other genres that fit the band template that are rife with talented, even popular black acts? where are they? I’m sorry, but your argument falls short.
And let’s be real, there are plenty selections amongst the proudly touted 500+ RB tracks that you and I both can agree DO NOT ROCK, and would gladly
rather see some of those neglected acts, black or otherwise in their place.
as to my seeing only “white guy bands” amongst the RB setlists, don’t put words in my mouth, it’s not appreciated. the problem is not me seeing “white guys” it that I am not seeing “black guys”. I couldn’t care less what other ethnicities or any other denomination of character made into the game, good for them. I only care that mine is noticeably represented in poor fashion.
To be clear, since your eyes apparently turned red and you didn’t see the entirety of my blog post, I haven’t accused HMX of anything….yet. I have only put forth that the situation as it stands looks suspicious, and if they or anyone else can bring hard evidence to the contrary to the table, I welcome it. I just want a real answer to my concerns, not the lame comment, “We look for songs that rock”.
That’s right you don’t care about other races, my point exactly. By saying you only care if YOUR race is represented, you are behaving in the same way you are accusing (or NOT accusing?) harmonix. If you really cared about equal representation for races you would be concerned. However you aren’t. You are viewing the situation through admittedly ethnocentric glasses. I am mexican, yet I am not going on about the lack of hispanic music in rock band. I see it as music. The fact that people CAN’T tell you whether specific members of a band are of a specific ethnicity is exactly how it should be.
I would say that harmonix has not sought out bands/artists that are recognized WHITE bands. They just sought out music they could obtain, and thought would be a good fit for the game. “Music that Rocks” is completely subjective and what you may enjoy, others may not. I do not enjoy metal, yet when i have friends over, they LOVE it. . .therefore Harmonix made a good choice in that DLC in the eyes of those friends. I can’t stand naked brother’s band, but my daughter HAS to include one in nearly every set now. Harmonix again made a choice that worked for some.
You say their attempts at obtaining Jimmy Hendrix does not excuse them. However, most of the big ticket AA (or predominantly known as AA) bands may have issues involved. Jimmy was just an example of one such known issue. Some of the older ones probably have master issues (note the lack of 60′s, and relatively lower number of 70′s tracks.) If they actively seek out the AA bands they CAN obtain, they mostly are normal bands that include AA members. Surely there are some AA bands that I think harmonix should persue, and i feel that particular cross section of rock history IS underrepresented, however, I cannot find any reason to assume racism in ANY fashion. I believe it to be simply a case of Harmonix grabbing the fruit they can reach (ie get rights, masters, etc.) and in the music industry, those are overwhelmingly white fruit. I’d blame them before harmonix.
Way to twist around the content of my post. Obviously, without trying to manipulate its context, what I said conveys the truth in point that people who are already represented in the game are not of my concern. they are represented, therefore there is no issue. Aside from that, to each their own. I am not going to crusade for every group who feels that they may have been discounted or slighted because it is up to them, just as it is up to me in this case, to see their heritage, preferences, races, creed, religion, or whatever denomination they represent to be given the proprer nod in any platform.
And sure, HMX doesn’t go out and look for specifically white bands and their music. Why? Because they don’t have to. The industry is predominantly composed of people of non-AA descent, what effort does it really take? White people are practically banging down their doors to see their music make it into the game I am sure. It’s one hell of an opportunity to be recognized.
As to what difficulty HMX may have in acquiring any particular music, I fully recognize that. But surely out of the many choices there are, spanning artists, groups and genres they can pull off a few tracks. I mean, if Activision can do it, so can they.
Yes, also, whether or not any particular act “rocks” is subjective. But I am sure that if you run through the RB forums or even just ask around, there are groups that definitely not popular enough to the consumer base as a whole to have been considered great content for the game. That is just the plain truth. And what would be the wrong in seeing a noteworthy AA artist(not excluding anyone else overall, but for the sake of my personal query) in their place?
You yourself noted that this “section of rock history” is underrepresented. And that , sir, is my whole argument. Of course, when it is obvious that someone has been lax in ther representation of ANY group, there is concern as to whether there is any discrimination or foul play of any kind involved. The thing about discrimination as many people do not seem to realize is that it can be wholly unintentional, but present. I am not saying in any sense that I believe HMX is purposefully disregarding my race’s part in not just rock, but music history.I certainly hope this is not the case, as I could no longer support their platform if that turned out to be true. However, I do want to make them see that the situation makes them look bad, whether or not they intended things to turn out as it has.
there has NOT been any rap in Rock Band. There has Been Hip-Hop. if rap had any guitar, it would probably be in the game. also, they have to liscense songs, you cant expect every race in the world to be in the game. so as in the words of Microsoft Anna: SHUT THE HELL UP!
Wow, you’re not very bright, are you? First of all, I am 32 years old, and I know the difference between hip-hop and rap. Beastie Boys? Rap/Hip-Hop. Mc Frontalot? RAP…….and not very good rap, at that. Second, whether or not rap has any guitar has nothing to do with the genre, it is up to the artist. there are plenty rap/rock collaborations out there, and there are also plenty of tracks either rap or hip-hop that include guitar on their own also.
Next, of course they have to license the songs, who doesn’t know that? you obviously haven’t read much of this page, as the issue has been discussed already. If you are going to half-assed read a blog, don’t bother replying, I mean, seriously. And, of course I can’t expect every race in the world to be in the game, but I can expect African Americans, whose music is at the very root of rock and roll, and were so integral to its beginnings. If there was a Hindi Rock artist back in the day who pioneered rock, then he/she would very much deserve to be represented also.
Oh, and BTW,
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4835/bigcupofstfuik4.jpg
Spelling, grammar, look them up. You might learn something………..
the onlyy rap that deserves to be in th egame is Tone Loc.
zalso, other african american artists: Jimi Hendrix, Lenny Kravitz, Living Colour. If i worked at harmonix, i wouldnt be looking to satisfy everyone, just the target audience. and most people play a game to play a game, not say “theres no black artists!” or “this game sucks! no spanish!”. so, in my opinion, you should just play the game.
……Also, other African American artists, like the ones you mentioned….. who are already featured in Guitar Hero…..which was one of the biggest points of my argument……see where I am going with this? And tell me, since you apparently know(and I would love to hear more of your “wisdom”), who, pray tell, is HMX’s target audience?
And no, most people don’t play music genre games like GH or RB “just to play the game”. Absolutely everyone I have come across who has had experience with the game has expectations as to what music they want to see in it. They won’t constantly play a game that doesn’t have music that they like to actually listen to. And I, personally want to see music in the game like what the GH crew has offered so far. playing “beat it” and watching the vocalist do the chorus line dance is pure gold. And where is the funk? Totally worthy of being in. If they want my money, then I want my music, that is the bottom line.
Now that Activision is doing guitar hero, the target audience seems to be boys aged 14 – 18. Rock Band, however, just seems to want to sell as much as they can (i mean, there over 300 DLC songs) Everntually, African American artists will come to rock band. maybe bands like living clolour are on guitar hero and not rock band because guitar hero offers more money? But eventually, there will be black artists in the game, or you can just wait for “Live And Let Rock”.
i just read the rest of your post. i like funk, but don’t think that it is suited for a full band game. if it was drums and voccals, then definatly, but there isn’t as much guitar in funk as in other genres.